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• Catamaran abandoned 300 miles off Norfolk...
  • “The rudder had somehow been bent,” he said. “It was useless.”
    • I've always thought the best odds of self-rescue after a loss of steering...
      • I'll give the owners the benefit of the doubt, too.
      • I've sailed with Hank
    • Turns out the boat was Hull #1 of the Alpha 42...
      • Yeah that looks a little light weight...
        • That Alpha 42 is a very cool design
          • Perhaps, but I look at that boat, and the first thing that comes to mind...
            • It's a light boat
              • BTW - 2 days before Irene hit
            • The first thing that comes to my mind is...
  • I hope I never
    • I suspect the big wave drove the boat backwards.
      • Sounds
  • Just watched the CG video. Now I got even more questions..
    • Two hulls would make easier?
  • More from the Alpha website.
    • Tarjan is a master of spin
    • Can't go by
      • Redesign and liability...
        • I've received legal advice on this
      • The diameter of the "tube" is one issue, the wall thickness another
        • I think my beach cat Prindle has rudder "stocks..."
      • But!, Once you get an engine running
    • A fertile field for critics. Here's the account from Doane....
      • refreshing to have somebody reporting from the bilge when one of these boats is abandoned.
        • It looks to me like someone
          • I suspect the same. Unless the builder shows the rudders were up to a reasonable spec.
            • On re-reading Wavetrain, maybe the stock didn't bend.
              • Someone asked on Wavetrain about the timing of the ill fated trip.
                • "if he's going to make a living as a delivery skipper, he can't turn down hard jobs like this..."
                • BTW, Evans Starzinger posted this WX picture over on SA...
      • Charlie replies to the sailing forums Peanut Gallery...
        • Whoa! Jon, your post is longer than the article.
          • Nah, I wouldn't bother, Tom... you've no doubt heard it all before (grin)
        • I've enjoyed all this story as others. Thanks.
        • Barking!!!
          • Reference the owner #2
            • would want to know more
            • Look at the link that Jon cited -- it's in the comments
              • I didn't read that as the buyer of #2
                • After read it again, I think it was a "spoof";^)
      • As usual, an excellent, measured analysis from John Harries...
        • Jon, tell us...
          • I agree.
          • Well, not YET, at any rate... (grin)
            • Thanks Jon...
    • The definition of "massive"....
      • I don't think it was cutting corners
        • Forces only increase in reality not in direct proportion to change of weight, speed, area, etc in direct proportion
        • I very much think it was cutting corners...
          • Interestingly
            • How big are the rudders on the Alpha 42? Anybody know?
              • Their literature is pretty focused on the interior accommodations..
            • I sometimes think about steering loss
              • To recreate their predicament, you would need to turn the rudder hard over..
                • Wouldn't try to recreate their predicament
            • Are your rudders spades or on skegs?
              • Spades
          • Don't get caught up on that "introductory price"
    • I'd put 1 1/2" on a 28'er.
      • too small rudder stock.
  • I know both Hank and Charlie and I have one question for them . . .
    • I think Hank and Charlie would argue with you that they were not in the Atlantic in February...
      • It's not February? Sure feels like it (grin) . . . but January is no better.
    • Exactly...
      • Your unexamined beliefs are showing, Jon
        • What are you sailing, Mark?
          • A Manta 40
          • You're making the wrong generalizations
            • I dunno
              • The mono would be more competitive
            • Well you are right about that...
              • None of this is about racing
                • I was impressed by how the boat sat in the seas.
                  • Many properly hove-to monohulls would have sat there like a duck, as well...
                    • Bilge and batteries, amen to that
                      • Max, they had one engine running. I
                    • They sounded diligent to me, Jon on the charging problems. But the rudders, I see no reasonable cure for that.
                • I agree with your points..
                  • Different Stategies and Musings
                    • Regarding rudders and loads...
                      • A keel loss usually leads to an immediate result. ;^O
                    • Dragonfly vs. J133
                      • Here's a video while beating
                      • The under appreciated problem with boat speed as a means to achieve VMG
                        • That's really interesting
                          • I have never seen this written about.
                            • That's why VMG and Polar Charts are always relative to the True, not Apparent, Wind
                          • A corollary: Pointing ability is more important than you thought.
                        • Used to play with the same curves for an ice boat.
        • "Unexamined", perhaps - but not necessarily unobserved...(grin)
          • My point was not that catamarans are close-winded
    • if there was ever a case for the owner picking up the rescue bill, this is it.
  • Charlie Doane posted an excelelnt account of the abandonment at
  • I would have thought that the boat could have been sailed
  • Now, after all this talk...
    • I have the price list
      • A couple of the buyers have posted in other forums
        • Sounds about right
    • Well those are tiny little rudders, surprised they noticed them missing...
      • The rudder size is not unusually small at all
        • Agreed
        • Two of them -- I wonder about that...
          • forereaching depends on sail balance
            • They aren't evenly loaded.
              • I still don't see the point
                • Even if you don't turn, the rudders see different forces, Mark
                  • I have agreed with you that mathematically, the rudders see different forces at different times
                    • Often the easiest analogies are extreme as examples ;^)))
                      • I don't buy the ski example in any form
                        • Not only
                        • Didn't they dive under the boat and look, as I recall.
                          • Maybe snowboard would be a better analogy, Steve.
                            • Aside from her being too good looking for you :^)))
                              • Enough snow and plenty of cold to sustain it.
                          • The owner stuck his head under and looked
                            • I agree.
      • Here is a monohull example
        • Those rudders are a compromise required by shallow draft. Nevertheless, the Alpha rudders were under bui
          • Of course it is a compromise
          • So I have become more interested in this shaft diameter thing
            • Can't sit still any longer...
              • This whole thing will shake out
                • This could be an opportunity for the builder, if they're smart.
              • I'm still in this for the rudders.
            • Many monohull spade rudder shafts are seriously undersized.
              • My Cross 35 Tri had a spade rudder. I used 1 1/2 stainless for a shaft. I also
              • Looking around the boatyard yesterday, it seems like ALL mono spade rudders are underbuilt
            • Mark, do you know another Manta 40 owner on Doublewide
              • Yes, I know Doublewide well
                • WTF? My post was truncated again
                • Apparently, only one person here is allowed to be a gasbag!
                  • Now I see the problem - I used the "less than" symbol, which cuts off posts
                    • Makes sense. It starts an HTML tag.
                  • Loss percentage for the Alpha 42 is pretty high? 100%
                  • No analogy ;^))). But do look at a site www.boatdesign.net
                    • Picture in thread cited above.
                    • Dude, I sail a catamaran
                      • http://www.dotan.com/article/
                        • You do understand that article is talking about transom hung rudders on racing beach cats?