Cruising Sailors Forum Archive

Messages In This Thread

• Video of Vestas Wind grounding released...
  • Watching the beginning a second time, one thing is abundantly clear to me...
    • Can't help but wonder what they were "checking out..."
    • Incredible video. This is copy on YouTube which may view better.
      • A crash gybe or tack is probably easier said than done...
        • As I look at it, they were on a port tack
          • You can bet the remaining 6 VOR boats are running their depth sounders now...
            • What a crash! I'm glad they aren't blaming the zooming red herring.
              • Doesn't sound like the issue of Zooming is a red herring, at all...
                • His mistake, as he says. He checks on paper as well.
                  • From the sound of it, he looked at the paper chart before they were rerouted
                    • And if the paper charts are back-up as opposed to in use-piloting,
                  • Hard to believe any reference to a paper chart was made within hundreds of miles prior to the grounding...
                    • Insurance probably isn't the issue...
                    • On my freakin' globe too!
                    • The owner should receive full value insured. That's what it's for, mistakes in navigation, etc.
                    • I posted an electronic chart on the other thread
                      • I don't have the echarts, but here it is on Google maps.
                    • It's almost a carbon copy of what happened
                      • They were on autopilot
                        • Yes, that's true but the charting error was, most likely, the same.
                          • Of all electronics, I find AP the most 'dangerous'.
                          • Actually, that's not what the subsequent inquests determined...
                            • The first scene in "All is Lost" was the most compelling part in the whole movie to me.
                          • Except for one huge issue, Steve (and others)...
                            • You are right about the islands. Every
                              • What's ahead???
                                • I once hit a rock that had a sign on it . . .
                                • My look ahead line is set for 20 miles.
              • In a press conference this morning, they admitted the simple failure to zoom in sufficiently was the cause...
                • Thanks. I didn't listen to the whole things, but ...
                  • They were aware of the depth... see this other post...
                • Using the image you posted, Jon, I have a question
                  • The magenta line designates the "Seaward Limit of Territorial Sea"...
                • Can Jon or anyone that has these e-charts, tell me the approximate NM distance across this screen shot?
                  • I don't have C-map for that part of the world...
                    • "the simple failure to zoom in sufficiently was the cause"
                      • Hey, I'm just repeating what they said... (grin)
                  • Scale on map you requested, Tom.
                    • Here's another map, it's a bit older...
                      • Those damn Portuguese apparently had the are scoped.
                    • Note the light at the southwest end; and, the notes on "Strong Currents.
                      • Right to the east of the Breakers to the North
                    • Thanks, but I'm curious, how far out do you need to zoom(NM's of visible chart), when only 40 meter depths show?
                      • Not a lot -- couple of clicks.
                        • An illustration of the different levels of zooming...
                          • The lighthouse specs
                          • Good e-chart academics but I'd like to see the area on their screens and software.
                            • Sounds like all of the boats are running a routing program called Expedition...
                              • Wow! A world of potential distractions, for sure.
                              • "To win you have to finish"
                              • Seems like your post poses quite a conundrum for your thesis regarding paper charts
                                • Don't want to speak for the other Jon, but for me e-charts are far from useless, but OTOH raster are far from outdated.
                                  • The Furuno, MaxSea, Nobeltec, and others
                                    • Zooming electronic charts is pretty much the same as CAD..
                                      • Some are 2D -- but a bunch are 3D, now Jon (Anomaly , version :^))) )
                                        • But the 3D modes are designed and marketed to weekend powerboats - not was Vestas (and most sailors) are looking at.
                                          • Many of the charts have the information imbedded?
                                • Well, I'm not proposing that these racers should be navigating solely using paper charts at all...
                                  • I don't think my point is coming across well
                                    • The Notice of the Race requires all boats to carry the "appropriate" paper charts for each leg...
                                    • The fact that the data is there was necessary, but not sufficient. The boat got ahead of the navigator...
                                      • On spot, DDW. I'm perplexed
                                        • Yeah! Good idea! I meandered about on need for new user interface ideas in my post below.
                                        • Split screen????
                                      • Do we know that they did not have a paper chart?
                                        • My point has always been, that by merely looking at a paper chart...
                                          • At current state of the art, paper simply displays MUCH more information....
                                          • I'm not arguing that point, or the relative resolutions
                                            • Don't know...
                                      • That's a really good post, Jon...
                                        • That's a weird looking design for a Ferrari piece. Isn't that their symbol on that wheel?
                                      • Excellent comments, DDW. Merits more than 36 or so views.
                                        • According to the rules (via Jon), they did have paper charts on board
                                • Nobody is asking the Volvo boats to plot on paper
                                • OK, here's an example to try to illustrate my point...
                                  • Now, here's my full iPad screen view...
                                    • Ipad!! You're coming around, Jon. You've lost some of the fire and brimstone in your crusade.
                                      • I'm sure he has one for Real Racing 3 - not navigation
                                      • There's at least one exception
                                        • Chris -- Are your Navionics charts updated?
                                          • No subscription.
                                        • I'm only equipped for New England. The Bahamas have always been an exception.
                                          • Monty and Sara Lewis's Explorer charts are very reliable.
                                    • Orpheus Rk via Navionics, as you say, mileage may vary
                        • Just a 'couple of clicks' away.
      • I am SURPRISED the keal held up....
      • This latest vid puts a whole new spin on it...
        • Yes, It's refreshing to know that it's not just one guy, no warning, no other chances, etc.
          • 'Note' not 'not'
            • Amazing moments recorded. I sensed we're witnessing raw shock and it's effect on people.
              • The noise below as that hull slammed into the coral and ground rapidly to a stop
          • All sailors make mistakes
            • Absolutely, the way they responded was exemplary...
              • Jon, when/where is Chancy's next trip likely to be?
                • Back up here, to Saglek Fiord...
                  • Be sure to let us know if you might be able to stop in Belfast
        • Spin? Looks like they're disclosing facts as they come in.
          • I didn't mean "spin", in that sense...
  • Another vid, with some different material...
  • EAG-Electronically Assisted Grounding-
    • Paper vs Electronic
      • What's that???
        • Missing paper charts
          • We have them for British Columbia
      • Correction: Seal and Mud Islands
        • I can see that happening. I had to zoom out to 90 NM for those islands to disappear on an ipad.
          • At 19 knots, the boat is going through 300 yards in 10 seconds, or so.
            • Do you remember the days of, "Oh my god, it's official, I don't know where we are?"
              • I remember a few of those times. It was hard over
                • Wow! Fast thinking. My sailing life could have been altered by crossing the Gulf Stream with no Loran, and two babies...
                  • Back in my Sat Nav days it was
              • I don't think anyone is expecting Volvo racers to plot o paper charts . . .
                • I think the navigator(captain) said a last minute change left no time for the usual pre-course strategy?
                  • That's been debunked, someone over on SA posted a diagram of the original Exclusion Zone prior at the start of Leg 2...
                    • Curiosity to look?
                    • That's a long post, Jon. Time is alittle short today,...
                      • Who knows, but it might have...
                    • Oh, and the one team that I think never would have hit the shoal (aka reef, aka shoal, aka whateve
                      • There you go, eyes on the paper and pixels.
                      • Interesting that the ladies on SCA were the only boat to pass to the east of the Cargados Carajos (grin)
                    • I guess no one uses depth sounder alarms anymore?
                      • That's the real head-scratcher, they KNEW they were getting into shallow water...
                        • Well that makes it only more wonderous - if I am crossing a 40m shoal in the middle of a 3000m ocean.....
                        • You're absolutely right about the depth alarm.
                    • Funny how people can hear the same thing differently
            • Sorry, I should have said over 100 yards (316', or so) in 10 seconds